c-span? yeah? okay, one more question. >> what was the most surprising finding for you? >> the most surprising finding for one one that just got me shocked more than anything else was the connection between veg -- vegetarians and eating disorders. ..

>> especially with young women. that vegetarianism is a link of a number of eating disorders including anorexia, bulimia. vegetarians are much more likely, if you ask them, if you could take a bill to satisfy all your nutritional needs, would you do that? to me, that's a horrible question. like, are you joking? many more vegetarians than non-vegetarians say yes. they just don't like food. i was just completely spun my head around.

thank you so much for coming. [applause] >> how herzog is a psychology professor at western carolina university. mr. herzog currently writes a blog on human animal interactions for psychology today. ngr more information visitdownti halherzog.com.ght >> we are pleased to be joined joined now by craig robinson who is the author of this book, it's called "a game of character." coach robinson as a basketball a coach at oregon state university. not just a some,thing that issuy covered on both tv, but the ford was written by marianne s robinson. so we thought it was worthng coh having coach robinson on.

coach, who is marian robinson? >> she is none other than myer. mother. mother of credit and michelle, wife of richard robinson, and one of the influence this in my riding a game of character. >> currently a denizen of the white house. >> obviously. >> michelle obama is brother. you have a picture on the front, an old family photo. tell us about fraser robinson. and in the boardroom. spent we've got to know mary robinson all little bit because

she's somewhat public and we've seen her with the girls and everything. but what did fraser robinson do? what you remember most about him? >> well, my father worked for the chicago water department, and was an hourly shift worker, and spent the boulder these three time raising his children. he was the keeper off all of the family folklore. he told us stories. he passed along the lessons andg the values.talks and again the character talks about a lot of the lessons that i learned from him. and >> craig robinson, you also talk about life lessons that you le could learn on the basketball court. what arean they? you know, whenk up basketball, you can tell if a guy is selfish or not or eagle --

egg go tis call. you have to make up your own calls and give up calls. you can learn a lot. >> when's the first time you played baskball with barak obama, and what did you learn? >> the first time was when my sister asked me to spend time on the court with him to see what person he is. i found that he is highly intelligent, high integrity, team player, and i also said that most of all, he just didn't pass me the ball because he was dating my sister. >> how much time do you get to spend with the obama's? >> you know, during the season it's tough. i'm here just on the day, so i won't even see him on this trip, but in the summer we get to catch up, so we come out here with the family quite a bit. >> the book, "a game of character" the author, coach,

craig robinson, coach of the oregon state beavers. basketball season begins in november. there's a month and a half of training to go. >> that's right. >> he's the brother peter. >> coming up next, book tv presents "after words," an hour-long program where we invite guest host to interview authors. this week president of king's college and best selling author

dinesh d'souza discusses his new book, "the roots of obama's rage," which examines what he claims is president obama's true ideology and what he believes is the ultimate source. the author of what's so great about america uses biographies of barack obama and books about the 2008 presidential campaign to argue that the president is attempting to fall in his fathers footsteps. he debates this year with newsweek's jonathan alter, author of "the promise." >> host: welcome. let's get started by asking about the title of your book, "the roots of obama's rage." most people even critics of the president don't see them as a person who is full of rage, he has a rather calm even temperament, especially compared to some others have held the office. what evidence do you have that

there's any rage at all within barack obama? just like i think that he was a obama is, our right. but he is calm and cerebral about things that don't fundamentally move him and a passionate way. so for example, some people on the liberal side have said we notice obama shows no passionately talks about poverty or the inner city, or civil rights. i think the reason for that is those issues are not primary for him at all. contractors with the way obama talks about for example, wall street or the banks, or the insurance companies or the pharmaceutical companies or the oil companies. then you notice that his lip curls and his voice goes up a pitch and hit against use words like kicking their butt. in other words, the anger does begin to seep out when he's talking about the guys at the top. in a way i think are a target of his rage. >> host: we'll get into specifics the specifics of whether that is rage in a few

moments. to give the viewers a better sense of who you are, you write a lot in your book about obama's father, barack obama senior, whom he met only once in his life when he was a little boy growing up in hawaii. tell us if you could about your own father, what he read, what he wrote, if anything, and what kind of business using and what kind of influence he had over you. >> guest: . my father was a chemical engineer. my mom a housewife. i grew up in india and bombay. so have a kind of third world backgrounds and if you will come although my family is westernized. we spoke english at home. we were i link while. so my dad worked for a pharmaceutical companies, we are in the middle class. we grew up without luxury. not lacking for anything.

>> host: do you believe that you should be held accountable for what your father believes, whatever his belief system might have been? gasbag of course a. notes i don't think it would automatically. parental disputes to the children. >> host: isn't that what you're doing with your book? guess that obama was asked to write a book, not a biography. and he wrote a book, significant titled "dreams from my father." not dreams of my father. not writing about my father's dreams. "dreams from my father" for the dreams i, obama, got from his debt. if you read his book, his dad is a powerful presence in the book even though he was absent in obama's life. i'm reminded of the line where achilles, the main character is

missing for many chapters and home rights achilles absent was achilles still. so even offstage at chili's is kind of driving the narrative. i think so it is with barack obama senior, even though he is not there obama is obsessed with them. he is pursuing him, tried to find out about him and, in fact, he is tried to shape his character and his value in the image of his father. >> host: shouldn't he be judged on what he says and what he does in his own life rather than to dispute something on that, something his father, who is also in some interviews and in the book quite critical of? to judge obama on his father's life? isn't there something that's unfair about doing that? guess mac let's remember that obama says of his father, it was into my father's image the black man, son of africa, that i had filled all the edges that i saw it myself. in other words, and i quote from

the magazine you work for, sarah obama, obama's grandmother who says i look at that and i see all the same thing. the sun has taken everything from the father. in other words, i'm not making this up. the theory that obama is shaped of the image of his father is in obama's on book. all i'm doing is saying yes, we shouldn't judge obama by his actions, but it's not unreasonable to ask does obama encompasses ideological framework which he may got from his father am helpless to understand what he is doing and what he will do any future. >> host: you've written a number of controversial books, it "the end of racism," that book came out, or a number of black conservatives who took issue with you, essentially calling the black underclass barbarians that they took issue with you calling the repeal of the civil rights act. so you've always been a rather controversial figure.

and that applies going back to when you outed gays at dartmouth college as an undergraduate there. this book is also controversial. the pushback on it is that you are asserting, rather than establishing or proving that some barack obama is hostile to the idea of capitalism. so i would just ask you today, where is your evidence? notch of speculation, but your evidence, hard evidence of that our president is somehow hostile to capitalist views? >> guest: just to go back for more. i didn't out any gays in my college years. our newspaper ran an article. my book, "the end of racism" was an examination, he sits in a page but by the way with 2000 footnotes. to black conservatives disagreed with it.

i agree it's a tough subject that it was looking at wind and nonwhite immigrants to america do pretty well. african-americans and indigenous my, american indians as well, do not fare as well. these are legitimate subjects to look at. because i've got a different country i feel like i see america from the outside and from inside. that gives me sort of a perspective. so maybe that's one reason my work is controversial. coming to obama, what is the evidence that he dislikes capitalism? >> host: yes. >> guest: the first draw that obama got, one of his first jobs -- >> host: president. i'm not talking about computing certain motives or intentions, some things that happen dozens of years ago, which is a very slippery business. i'm talking about in the presidency he rejected the advice that he nationalize the banks when he could have easily done that. he has cut taxes for small

business on eight separate occasions, 20 months he's been in office hostility. you call him menacing. that's a very strong, a menacing president that i would just like to know -- >> guest: i think is missing input is more on foreign policy. there was a debate over capitalism of course the state is in a debate that capitalism was widely believed to have one even bill clinton promised declared that the era of big government is over. obama has reestablished the era of big government with a

vengeance. he seems to take immediate activism and government service as more noble than entrepreneurship. he really, you senior oboe, he really has a good word to say about entrepreneurship. >> host: you called me from my book, "the promise" saying he doesn't use the word entrepreneurship enough. that is what i said. can use it in the context make it seem as if in my book i'm arguing that he is somehow hostile to entrepreneurs. i don't suggest that in my book. there's no evidence of that. >> guest: ious a quote from your book. if i cycle from your book, i'm not endorsing your entire book. >> host: you are taking the quote out of context as you do any number of other areas as well transit a lot of people vote for obama think he would be another clinton. know it's a centrist. there's a widespread sense that he is widespread. is greatly expanded the fear of

the federal government in a number of areas. automobiles, energy, health care, financial regulation, the banking, mortgage lending. you might think this is all good, and as a liberal you might think it's wonderful. but the truth of it is obama has racked up the spin. is always talk about sticking the tabs to the rich and his increased federal control, not nationalization, but federal controls over a large sector of private enterprise. and all this has been a business on strike. if you want to know why our economy isn't doing well, one possible explanation is obama is antibusiness and -- >> host: they are not on strike. the markets are doing well. let me just say he has done nothing more -- you say that he is very different in the campaign that he was in the campaign, and you go on to say, if this is a quote, never before has the tentacles of government reach so deeply into the private

sector. never before, page 20 of. >> guest: that is out so a true tragedy me give you a couple possibilities. 1933, national recovery act, were antibusiness was made to adhere to government codes. i write in my earlier book, the defining moment about how to regulate, striptease establishment about the amount of, the number of times striptease -- 1971, richard nixon. wage and price controls, rigid control on what things cost in our economy. you said never before. in both those cases, let me just finish the question, the tentacles extended much further than barack obama adopting mitt romney, howard baker and bob dole's elf care plan. you tell me where they extended and they were close to in 1833 oh 1971.

>> guest: first of all, the 1930s we were in a great depression. know it's extreme situations, like a war, world war ii. >> host: we were losing 750,000 jobs a month when obama took office. he put a target. if he hadn't intervened, obama continued, how we have prevented a depression? we're on a path that depression. >> guest: this is off -- >> host: that's a fact. >> guest: what your doctor is a depression that never was. another possibility, another possibility is, is a panic was used as a pretext for massive government -- "the roots of obama's rage" how can we be losing 750,000 jobs a month? look at the fox. >> guest: unemployment is coming about 9%. it was 7.5 is that when obama took office. "the roots of obama's rage" that

was reflecting, you know. >> guest: all right. but we're talking -- this is compared to 30% or 35% unemployment in the great depression. there's no comparison. >> host: 25%. we were headed, if the auto industry gone under, -- [talking over each other] trade you don't believe this? guestmac i think which are missing is coming is the government says jobs by spending money over here. you are forgetting that to say the job a government has to have some is pocket over there. that created job. this is a bit of -- >> host: let's move on. first of all, you say that is done by anticapitalist. it was done by steven ratner. [talking over each other]

>> guest: obama appoint a star. >> guest: let me be clear on this. you're suggesting. >> host: you make the case in your book that his firing rick wagner as chairman of general motors is prima facie evidence that he is in the grip of an anti-capitalist ideology when there are quite a number of -- >> guest: no, no, no. guest i can -- [talking over each other] you just asked me to point in the case with the government has gone further than has before in regulating the private sector. i gave you an example. you switch back to an earlier question where you asked me -- >> host: your talk about regulation. the tentacles of government that you're not talking about one on where -- first of all, he didn't

have the power to five and. they asked for his resignation. by the way, there are many other examples going back of president to have taken a very strong line against capitalism. somebody from your own party, theodore roosevelt. now, would you say the same thing about barack obama about theodore roosevelt in sum is very, very tough critics, much tougher rhetoric. >> guest: keep things in perspective. it was miniscule. trade now you're changing. you're saying -- >> guest: i'm saying the federal government today is involved in all these major sectors. it is a much larger presence in our economy. so that alone is a sign of expanding federal power, expanding federal debt, sticking it to the high income taxpayer. isn't that evidence of a mentality that is against free

enterprise, against private enterprise? >> host: let's go back to your book. towards the beginning you assert with no evidence a story that obama remembers seeing in the magazine as a small child. he was a youth when he saw what he thought, later wrongly remembered, was a story about a black man trying to do something to skin to make him appear more white. you're quite accurate, he wrongly remembered seeing that in i think ebony magazine. there was the evidence it was in ebony magazine. there's no evidence that surface yet that it was in another magazine. that doesn't mean that he was lying because he very easily could have been in another magazine. but you going to assert that that thinking, that idea that he remembers from his a small child asked it comes to history the anti-colonialist work of.

where is your evidence that he concocted that story? or is that more accurately described as much of the book, a supposition rather than actually a conclusion based on evidence? >> guest: it is a plausible supposition based on the fact that we know obama didn't get it where he said he did. now, you're pretending like it was a memory of a 10 year old. this is obama writing a book in 1995 when the man is in his 30s, a book that was what widely reprinted when he spoke of the democratic convention in 2004 that was used as a campaign document in 2008. let me read a sentence if i may from obama's recollection. he's talking about seeing this article in "life" magazine. he says i felt my face and neck get hot, my stomach knotted. i had a desperate urge to jump out of my seat to demand some explanation, some reassurance that he said the man he saw looked sickly by the radiation victim or an albino.

there's an emotional intensity and precision to this incident. by the way, it takes up quite a bit of space. it is a pivotal space in coming to terms with his racial identity. so my point, if you don't do something that happened when you're 10, how would you of such political detail about the incident that never happened, or you can't remember? you're generally going to find data somewhere else that here's the point that the incident involved a man who took radiation treatment for chemical treatment to lighten his skin. i rating the anti-colonial riders book, and he's talking about african negroes who try to act in a way that resembles the french. he says they want to look white and the want to dress like and talk white that he says, i do know one case of a black man who took radiation and chemical treatment to lighten his skin. is eerily similar to the episode and obama, and obama mentions this in his book. it's not unreasonable to think obama read that. it's unreadable to think he

lived the incident, which cannot be found in his sources, but i found in one of obama's other sources. so yes. can i prove obama -- no, it's the best explanation out there. thank you this is just one of many. >> host: this is just one of many logical suppositions jumped, we are getting over a big gap to establish a point without actually providing evidence for that point. these are all logical leagues, would you concede that? >> guest: let me say what i say. i say here, i believe, is where obama got his skin treatments for that he founded in elsewhere. >> host: this is a supposition yes mac i'm offering a very. >> host: so we shouldn't say this is a realm of speculation and supposition. is it fair to characterize the book that way?

>> guest: know. here we're talk about an incident that occurred when obama was 10. you weren't there. i wasn't there. obama was the only one there. there's no other way to analyze of than to say, let's look at the most believable explanation for what happened. >> host: it's not believable to you that an air are african-american men were talking their hair, straining to have to look more white and where clearly the status banking order favored those with lighter skin, a whole history to this? is it not fair to assume that perhaps a very young barack obama was telling some version of the truth, that he saw some article, that he just made this story up? based on radical literature that he read? >> guest: that's not my point. you're missing the point that there is a legitimate history here. here's what he didn't cite it. obama's history is not typical african-american history.

obama never sat in a segregated lunch counter. in fact been african-american in america by large means being decent of slave. obama did not descend from slave. and from a white woman who grew up in kansas and in hawaii. so my point is it was very important for obama to retrieve the incident to himself because it was part of an attempt to create his african-american identity. he easily could've cited a book that said sold skin treatment potions. he did want to do that because it was important for him to establish his -- >> host: you don't have evidence. >> guest: i know, i know that it's not in his source. i'm getting a better explanati explanation. >> host: you are very steep in the literature, but i think that

i might know based on my research all of it more about barack obama than you do. not just from personal general knowledge over personal years of talking to a lot of people around him. do you honestly believe that he wants, say, new energy policy for this country as part of an anti-colonial view? or do you think it might actually have more to do with trying to free us from, say, the anti-colonial saudi arabia and who have us addicted to their oil? is he so anti-clothes, that was animating principles of policy, which you argue, why is he going after the anti-colonial and that part of the world? >> guest: first of all, they have nothing to do with anti-clone is that they are

building their own country. they're not ruling someone else's country. >> host: you with the one who is steeped in history of large arabi. they had to come out from under british will. the saudi royal family. is a product of, you know, early movement against empire. >> guest: i think the way to understand at the close and so that the idea that the world is divided into the rich white west and now america that has gotten rich by invading occupying and serving the poor country. and that within the rich countries, there are concerts economic interests, banks, where copies, corporate elites that by large, the big bad corporations that ripping off people in the own country and around the world. now i -- thank you, you agree with that? >> guest: i agree with some of it but i think it was different and there are much better ways to get over the legacy of colonialism. we can talk about that. >> host: you agree of colonialism, 19th and 20

century colonialism was not generally a positive thing for the world? do you challenge that as well. >> guest: i do challenge that because i -- >> host: you can't that -- [talking over each other] >> guest: he said india is on the way to becoming power. he's ever growing at 10%. he said, and the reason for that is we speak english. he said we have universities. we have technology. we have democracies. we have property rights to grant contract. he said how do we get those things? we got them from the british. i admit when i was going up to any leader could have given that speech. the indians are now taking a new look at what they got from in pre-listen. to the want the british will? of course not. i'm an anti-colonialist. but if you're asking me was the wealth of the west generated purely through conquest? no. that forgets about the enlightenment, the reformation, industrial revolution, internal sources with western affluence.

the point of want to make about obama is the. my point is that obama is training for saying he has frozen in his father's time machine. is taking a kind of antiquated anti-colonialism of 50 years ago and using it a very different state. for example, you look at america. are we in iraq to be a colonial power? obama says we are, but we're not. are in afghanistan to fight a colonial war? obama acts as though we are. we are not. >> host: he just and another 40,000 troops. >> guest: there's a reason. the reason he did that is for tactical reasons in the campaign when he is running against bush, he made a distinction between the good war and the bad worker to talk the american people, iraq, which is bush's war is a bad war. that's a war of choice to afghanistan he said is a war of necessity. in other words, he did want to

come out against both because it would make them look weak on defense we made a distinction. he inherited the afghan war. >> host: everybody knows this modern history. your description of colonialism, the positive revenues of in education and other areas as well as a negative legacy, mirrors almost exactly not only what i would think, but what barack obama based on everything he has ever said or written would thing. subtle appreciation to cure trying to put him into a left wing straitjacket. based on the rights of his father. i need more evidence was the evidence that he is some kind of a wild eyed anti-colonial quasi-marxist character? trigger you have to let me state that if you just want to quibble with me about small points, i can't -- >> host: we have plenty of time. >> guest: is the evidence that obama has been doing two things simultaneously.

he has been domestically expanding the power of the state. and internationally, contracting america's role of the world stage. for example, he's getting us out of iraq. is announce a withdrawal from afghanistan in 12 months. >> host: based on -- >> guest: let me finish. he goes on a kind of apology tour to the third row, to europe basically saying i'm going to contain, if you will, this american injury and. i'm not going to let america unilaterally dominate and bleed the world that i will put a leash on this and you can help me to do that. this is an american leader in the need even calling on foreigners to help them control america. so he asked in his conduct -- you may not agree, but let me lay out the argument here. why would someone domestically expanding government while internationally contracting american power? whether you think it is for good or bad reason that i say it's the best one that explains both. and while the other three's out

there. obama is a civil rights wonder, the realization of martin luther king's dream. that's david remnick. our obama is a secret socials. it seems and all of those theories can't fit the data. the beauty of the anti-colonial three is that the anti-colonial agenda is twofold. number one, it use america and the west around being the world. put a saddle and the leash on the up and and pull him back. and second this is an american unit neocolonial forces ripping off the poor, ripping off the ordinary citizen, let's make sure you've be colonized those forces, established the rod of government control over the. that's exactly what obama is doing. >> host: why is it that teddy roosevelt progressive republicanism rather than some cockamamie theory that, the point which is just to tar him -- >> guest: if you read his own autobiography, it is far more prominent than the theme of civil rights to he does talk

about civil rights, i grant you, but he talks of colonialism extensively. it is a book about colonialism. so i think what is sad is, this is a very american tennessee where we're all projecting american history onto obama. we're unknowing -- ignorant obama's own history. you won't let me describe obama's relationship. let me to do. i'm a foreigner that i grew up in any that i'm an immigrant to america. i did not land on the american land until i was 17. okay? obama didn't land on the american mainland until he was 17. >> host: are you comparing india to hawaii rx guess that it became a state two years before obama was born. there's a second -- i long history of colonialism into why. he spent years in hawaii, four years in indonesia, subsequently he went to pakistan, multiple trips to africa. even in hawaii, one of his mentors was a former communist, a person whose identity obama

sort of camouflage in his book. is my point. radical associations, some of which he reveals, some of which he suppresses. his mentor at columbia, anti-colonial writer -- >> host: you are establishing them as his mentor? >> guest: that is true. >> host: just to go back, condoleezza rice has a book out about her childhood. she also talks about how stokely carmichael was a frequent guest in her home when she was growing up. do you hold that against her? should we try to include someone is or values to calm his rights? she answers the question by the, she says no. >> guest: if you look at obama, first of all, he was raised in a sense for most of his life, his young wife by neither his father nor his mother. he had mentors and surrogate fathers all the way.

in fact, he says in his book i look at these surrogate mentors, the fathers, and i compared it to my real father and they always fell short. signify the influence of his real father, a man who wasn't there. who were the surrogate fathers? tragic night just making this up. .doc how do you make these assertions? >> guest: i have a lot of evidence. >> host: there's no evidence. >> guest: he appeared at a fundraiser in chicago, at which he spoke that obama maintain a relationship with them and tell his death a few years ago. but most of us don't maintain -- >> host: do you have other sources -- i'm from chicago and another. >> guest: one of them was he socialist. they were pretty close. they were texting each other right up until the election at which point he disappeared and he told david resnick i did want to be edited because i'm a revolutionary. if people find out about my

close connection with obama it's going to hurt obama. that's the quote. "the roots of obama's rage" that's common sense. >> guest: bill and to my point is this is not a matter of stokely carmichael coming to my house. it's associations throughout his life. is a big difference. >> host: i would ask you why you only focused on the association that had with so-called radicals without evidence establishing much in closer, and you never mentioned many of the other pillars of the establishment, some of whom i know from chicago. let's take one, chairman of fcc under john f. kennedy. had a law firm where barack and michelle obama, describe i obama many times, along with former congressman and federal judge as mentors. you are suggesting that they are

not even worthy to mention in your book, but any time he might come into contact with somebody who you can steer that therefore these people are the ones who determine his -- should you give him more credit for sorting out the very simplest is on his life? summer pillars of the establishment, summer critics, one of which a rabbi, for example, across the street from where he lived. you don't mention any of those folks. why not? >> guest: how many times did obama mention minute in his book? never. .doc. >> guest: what you mean the early part? it was a book those college in 1995 when obama was in his mid '30s. >> host: for various -- it you should know we have not -- it is a literary work and some chris collett ill lyrical work. it is not a work of politics. it is not an argument for some --

>> guest: i agree with that. let me say this. i cannot compare the influence with jeremiah wright pictures a guy, he gave his largest journal-constitution to come and we heard a sermon from jeremiah but it was so intellectual that he took the name of the sermon, for his book, the audacity of hope are going to the time i know obama did that was when he changed his name to match his father's african name. so for obama -- >> host: these are all interesting details that have been reported on endlessly. what you do differently in your book is you take the stacks, you taken out of context, for political reasons that he joined trinity church so that he could meet people of useful human politics which personally, this would be a very ambitious young politician. guessed that i don't think that's why he went to trinity by the way.

>> host: isn't that what you know, it's what is reported. i think he went there for political reasons. [talking over each other] >> host: u.o.r. cherry-picking things that are very distracted of his reputation of trying to make it out to be a rage filled left-winger, and you are ignoring any contract evidence. i think somebody who is neither conservative like you, or liberal like me, might justifiably say that's not the most fair approach to sorting out and getting at the complex truth, barack obama. >> guest: i think that is wrong, jonathan, for this reason. will try to look at facts and try to make sense of them. obama came back from africa from a very powerful incident where he wept at his father's grave, and he comes back to america, he goes to chicago. and he goes to reverend jeremiah

wright's church, and as he approaches it he says himself, i saw a sign on the long as it beside free south africa. the right way the international, the third will theme is evident on that site that obama is excited to get those injured he quotes from the very first sermon here. it made an impact on them. it was years ago. what was reverend jeremiah wright doing? he was basically linking the civil rights struggle at home with the third world that he was linking it with haiti and south africa. and this is the anti-colonial seed. >> host: that is all fun. the important thing is what he said as president. but you don't want to quote any of the many, many, many, other things he said as president that are affirming for american society, affirming for american culture. you want to take things he said as president that can serve your argument. and i want to take one example because this is something i know about. you cite my book, you footnote my book, in a section where i'm

writing about the decision to a series of deliberations about afghanistan in the fall 2009. the president said to me, on the record, that he wanted to quote, slow everything down. he felt like he had moved to a rapid escalation in the spring, and before he sent another 40,000 troops he wanted to slow everything down, you need to slow the debate down so that they could examine the assumptions behind the war and examine the assumptions behind the assessment of our national security that would require troop escalation. and then he would move forward with his escalation. you quote me going the president saying he wanted to slow everything down, meaning you want to slow down defense spending, which is not what he said at all. this is a piece of some of the carelessness that led "forbes" magazine to issue a correction

on some of your quotations. >> guest: well, forbes correction was a one-liner misquote and had no effects, no significant argument. let me quote your corporate this is directed from your book. i say all the quotes above are saying to him if it was wrong ,-comto for the past eight years, whatever the military asked for, they got. my job was to slow things down. this is not be so i got a debate. it means whatever the military -- >> host: it -- >> guest: i'm going to slow down -- [talking over each other] host and you incorrectly quoted me. that is totally inaccurate depiction of what the president said to me. >> guest: hold on. is the quote wrong? >> host: yes, that quote is wrong. [talking over each other] >> guest: what is the correct quote? the context.

>> host: he's not talking about the defense budget anywhere close to that in the interview. he's talking about the debate over in afghanistan. >> guest: let's reaffirm it. the quote is correct what you think the context -- >> host: the quote as an actor. so you did not say, let's get right. for the past eight years whatever the military asked for that's what i got. my job was to slow things down. did obama say that? >> host: my job was to slow things down on the troop request. you're making frankly, dinesh, you're making an argument -- >> guest: no, no, no. i just want the viewers to know. you are reading a different -- [talking over each other] >> host: i don't think this is useful or productive. >> guest: okay. let's be clear. we will let you decide what it means. let's read the quote. >> host: no, no. excuse me. ethnic whatever the mill to ask what they got. my job was to slow things down.

i took that word for word from your book. i cite the page number. >> host: those two quotes do not go together. you link to them and they don't in thing to do with each other. >> guest: the quote is accurate or. >> host: the weight of rendered rendered it is fundamentally and entirely untrue. what you have done is untrue. and there are many examples. excuse me, let me clarify something. you know from political debate and in all our viewers know, it's very easy to take any quote and rip it out of context and make it say something. you can do that with adolf hitler. you can do that with any. you agree with that. >> guest: but i haven't done that. [talking over each other]

train to dinesh, you are trying to -- this is my interview. may i finish? i am the judge about the context was because i was there. >> guest: very not. >> host: you can insult me. there enough. this is not a matter of opinion or supposition, which is what your book is about. this is a matter of fact. the context actually, facts can be stubborn things. the context that he was not talking about, the defense budget, as you assert in your book. he was talking about discussions over troop deployment. because the pentagon in the past got the troops they requested, which is actually not true. general shinseki asked for more troops and president bush. but the president did say that,

that his perception was but then again had gotten what as for. so he went to slow down, for giving them what they asked for, which he did. another thing you don't indicate in your book. he wanted to slow down the debate. the context that you have, just so the viewers are clear, he was for slashing the pentagon budget, which is not true, not part of his pentagon budget request. there's not even the slightest resemblance of that portion of the conversation. those are debatable. those are things you should just say, maybe i should've been more careful about the context. >> guest: look, you were there. you know the context that i will defer to you on that. fair enough. let me just say one thing. when someone says whatever the military asked and they got from my job was to slow things down, a reasonable viewer or reader can read that and --

>> host: taken out of context. [talking over each other] >> guest: if you have been reading the "new york times," locates has been announcing cutting the defense budget. >> host: bob gates? ass bob gates. >> host: noted lefty. noted anti-colonialism. maybe is making some rational -- >> guest: he is now working for obama. isn't obama telling gates the want to do? is an obama the commander in chief? >> host: good question. [talking over each other] >> guest: obama is quoted in the article talking about belt tightening. >> host: the defense budget has gone up over obama. it is now over $500 billion a year. are you arguing that? >> guest: no. it is not mirrored in education or health and human services, or any other industry.

most of the government is going at a bloated pays. and defense is being asked to cut back. that's just a fact. [talking over each other] >> host: defense spending is growing at a faster rate. let's move on. you say at one point, no credible observer believes obama's heart is with the jewish state. do you believe that in his heart, are you asserting -- >> guest: the thing with a jewish day, i mean, the fundamental obama is not sympathetic towards israel. is more sympathetic toward the enemies of israel, if you appear that obama's these israel as a colonial occupier of palestinian territories. therefore, he puts pressure on israel not on the palestinians to make concessions. so i think that there is a widespread sense among analysts and the jewish community that

obama is not a friend of the jewish state. and ethically of three by the way would help explain that. that israel is the colonial occupier of the west bank and gaza. >> host: all right. let's go back to this question of his relationship with his father. naturally at the the heart of this. quote embraced his fathers ideals and decided to live out the script of his father's unfulfilled life, unquote. let me read that again. and raised his fathers ideals, decided to live out the script of his father's unfulfilled life. his father became a drunk at the end of his life, was killed after driving drunk in africa for various complex tribal reasons that you describe in your book, he fell out of the government of kenya.

where is your evidence that he decide to live out the script of his fathers life? and do you think that barack obama thinks that the failed script of barack obama, sr. was his pattern rec's. >> guest: know. >> host: y. would have gone back to africa? >> guest: right. you're misconstruing the whole package. there are three relations with his father bigotry begins with his mother called invading an obama a mythic reverence for the father. obama has a romantic picture of his father. then obama discovers that his father was actually a dubious character that he was a polygamist. is a self-described african socialist. he was a chronic drunk driver. he got liver disease. he killed a man that he finally got drunk in a bar and drove into a tree. so these were termite discovers for obama, and shook his

confidence in the earlier romantic picture. so what does obama do? he says i've got to find out for myself. he goes to africa. and that his father's grave he makes a crucial distinction. he basically says i'm just finishing between my father the man and my father's dreams. i'm not going to go with the man. i'm not going to go to ask him about my father's failed life. i'm going to pick my fathers great vision, his dreams, his ideals. i will carry those out. now where is the proof of the? let me read a sense from obama. he is weaving on his fathers day. is trying to connect with his father physically. he says through africa's red socom he is touching the ground, i sat at my father's grave and i spoke to him to ask as read so. his father had been dead for six years by the way. we might years were spent i felt a calmness wash over me that i felt a close. i realized that who i was, what i cared about, was no longer a man of intellect or obligation, no longer a construct afford. i saw that my life in america,

the black life, the white life, sense of abandon i felt as a boy, the frustration, all of it, was connected with his small plot of earth and ocean away, the pain i felt was my fathers painted so here's obama in a very in direct emotional life making himself psychically with his father and saying that even his life away from his father, even in chicago, in hawaii, in indonesia when the man wasn't there, that was part of it. that gives meaning to his life. so happen to read a passage like this and say come and ask a question like you did earlier, he never knew his father. you read all this. >> host: i wasn't suggesting and would suggest down that his father isn't a huge part of this mental landscape. >> guest: thank your. >> host: the question, dinesh, what does this have to do with particular decisions that he made in office? are you suggesting that -- >> guest: are you saying that

the psychic moral intellectual and emotional formation of a man come and this is not obama writing by the way at 10. this is obama at 35 years old telling you how he became who he is. and then he gets into politics. and you're saying that his actions and his ideas in a subsequent years cannot be understood by looking at those formative influences in his life? >> host: know i'm not suggesting that it all. out of anyone would suggest -- any person, what are my first questions about your background, everybody has some measure of product of their upbringing and to the parents were and all the rest, in a complex way. but in the fundamentally own fear and united states where you can always make a new life, as you have, as barack obama did, the difference, drawn between us and many other differences, where you do what your father did, you do what your father

tells you. you fall in your father's footsteps. you don't break away and come to unite states and make a new life. if people in the community want to impugn your motives and everything about you to your father, that's just the way it is. don't we have a different country than that? don't we judge people by what we do? >> guest: absolutely. when you are a public figure, you have given an account of your life. i could easily give an account of my life. i haven't but i could come in which i said i grew up in india. but that did mattered to me, or the stuff i learned there, i've learned other stuff over here. obama as a mature man wrote a story of his own life, which took a back data in fact he went to your. he said i didn't belong there, you know it is beautiful it didn't appeal to me. i had to go to africa. obama connect more with the father than the mother. my point is yes, if obama had repeated his father as he said i've learned new things, i'm a new made men, but obama is circulating his own book about

his father and the campaign documents two years ago. those are relevant -- >> host: you talk about rage. one thing just a point of work that does make and very upset is when people say that the book is evidence he didn't have a close relationship with his mother. he wrote this book about his father, but as you know doubt have read in the apple want to the book, he says that nobody influenced him more in a most profound in many ways than changes like more than his mother that he just didn't have to write a book about it. >> guest: i agree with that. >> host: he is his father son but he is not connected to his mother is not to. >> guest: of course it's not true but what i'm saying is his mother was his father's first cover. obama's as i would talk to my mom and i would criticize my mother, where is my father, why isn't he here? the mother would defend the father as they don't criticize him. is a great men of africa. when obama's father walked out on them and obama was less than two years old, what does she do?

she marries another anti-colonialist and as indonesia. when she is in indonesia, this is obama's own description, he says this over time became more pro-western, more pro-capitalist and obama's mom begins to attack a. she calls him a saw and she tells obama don't be like her. don't be like a stepfather to be like your real father. she packs up obama incenting back to hawaii. obama is only 10. she doesn't go with them. she stays in indonesia. from the age of 10 to 17 he is raised by his grandparents. when congress is the mom was hugely influential in building up the debt. >> host: let's look at the question. ron reagan's father was a drug. his memoirs start with him being drunk on the front stoop that abraham lincoln didn't have a relationship with his father. it was so strained. there's all kinds of complications